[steffi]

I think it's right to say that TitanTV is being phased out in preference to TV Guide.

Why is something that's already working being "replaced" by something else that requires a yearly subscription?

[Mike Evangelist]

We have had many, many requests over the past two years for improvements to the program guide. Some of the top requests have been:

• for EyeTV to offer more than 7 days of program information
• Guide data for Canadian users
• to include deeper descriptive information for shows (movies in particular)
• to be able to automatically schedule the recording of series
• more reliable daily updates

Switching to TV Guide helps make these enhancements possible. In addition, the infrastructure work we've done with TV Guide should make the daily EPG updates more dependable.

[VinceI]

Sounds good to me and I welcome the change, even with the small added fee.

I would rather an upfront fee like that than trying to hide the fee in higher upgrade costs.

Titan TV had recently dropped some channels from the DirecTV EPG, like Planet Green, which made it kind of a pain to figure out what was on those channels. They also didn't respond to emails.

When I switched to 3.1 and TV Guide, my channels were back.

[Joe2]

You can already get more than 7 days of data from TitanTV, there's usually at least 14 days available with parts of day 15. This has been the case for at least 7 years that I can recall back to when I was using HiPix PCI HDTV solution on windows and the original white EyeTV usb box. The info has always been shady at TitanTV and start times for shows like Conan or SNL have always been wrong, but TVGuide seems to be not much better with regards to program changes or start/end times. An integrated .xml method would probably be best for all of us.

[evstratios]

CONTROL - that's why they're getting rid of the free service.

MacroVision owns TV Guide.

This new Clear QAM tv thing is about shutting down 80% of the transmitters.

Now the CONTROL is moving to shut down things like EyeTV
that let you record video... slowly... like the frog in the pot cooked.

The scary thing is the sheeple fighting against property rights.
There's actually a petition to stop the iPod Touch 2G jailbreak
and idiots calling for an AppStore for Mac OS X...
when obviously the locked-down iPod/iPhone is a model for a new type
of computer where you can't change the software or do what you want. Duh.
They want to lock us out of our own property and force us to accept Internet2
where you will not be able to do other than what THEY want, what THEY approve.

People keep asking why would you want to do other than what THEY say?

$20/year for TV Guide is Elgato selling us out to MacroVision - for CONTROL.

THEY are circling the wagons against the American people - WAKE UP!

[Mike Evangelist]

You can already get more than 7 days of data from TitanTV, there's usually at least 14 days available with parts of day 15.

TitanTV provides 14 days on their website, but they only provide 7 days for integrated program guides in programs like EyeTV. It's part of the license.

[NoPCZone]

I see the addition of a paid schedule service as a DOWNGRADE, a step backward, a reduction in value and is not a welcome addition. As to the contention that this was a wanted feature, I say BS. Cable Card support is probably the most commonly cited feature desired.

[Mike Evangelist]

Cable Card support is probably the most commonly cited feature desired.

CableCard is much-requested, but not possible.

CableCard certification requires end-to-end copy protection on the entire system; Macs don't currently meet that criteria. This could change in the future, but certainly not any time soon.

[sjk]

As to the contention that this was a wanted feature, I say BS.

Which "this" has a contention? Mike's post clearly states that switching to TV Guide makes it possible to implement other oft-requested enhancements that he listed.

It's understandable why Elgato is migrating to the TV Guide EPG even though, like many people, I've been satisfied (enough) with TitanTV. At least we've still got a year to decide if it's worth paying for an EPG subscription (and put $$$ in Macrovision's pockets, ick). Right now "more reliable daily updates" is the only request from Mike's list that really matters to me from Mike's list.

Something I haven't seen explicitly mentioned is whether or not TitanTV remote scheduling via the web site will continue being supported after its EPG support is phased out. My hunch is that it won't be because Elgato won't be paying them to keep it, but I'd like to get official confirmation.

Let's hope Elgato will seriously consider alternatives to paid EPG subscriptions, e.g. beef up EyeTV's XML support.

[sjk]

Speaking of "more reliable daily updates"…

EyeTV still has issues scheduling them:

Program Guide.png (12.35 KiB) Viewed 4269 times

The last update was yesterday while the next update is tomorrow. What about today??

And why is it still tediously necessary to open Preferences just to determine EPG update status?

[bed]

Complaining about a US$20/year fee? You guys have it lucky. In Australia for tight eyeTV integration we pay AU$99/year (us$64) for the iceTV EPG. At the end of the day, they manage a service (making tv programming available) that costs them constantly, its only fair they get an ongoing service charge for it. I don't know how the tv programming works in the US, but in Australia iceTV has been taken to court a few times by our tv networks, as the networks 'license' out their own EPGs at a large price, and don't like that iceTV do their own collating and publishing of the data. But us$20 a year for a great service, bargin (IMO).

[sjk]

bed,

Thanks for the reminder of how people can overlook or underestimate problems with different EPG providers. I've speculated that was one reason Apple would never want TV tuners in Apple TV… like they don't already have enough to do handing iTunes Store content issues.

[pseniura]

You can already get more than 7 days of data from TitanTV, there's usually at least 14 days available with parts of day 15.

TitanTV provides 14 days on their website, but they only provide 7 days for integrated program guides in programs like EyeTV. It's part of the license.

Mike (and all other doubters),

Here is some proof we are getting more than 7–days using TitanTV on EyeTV’s Program Guide. See attached screenshot, which I just grabbed a few minutes ago prior to making this post.
Details:

• Today Real Wall Clock Time is Tuesday 20–Jan–2009.
• I included the EyeTV Prefs Panel showing the Guide was refreshed earlier today.
• EyeTV Pgm Guide is currently showing the local OTA listing for 31–Jan–2009.
• Pgm Guide for 01–Feb–2009 and later is available but currently incomplete.

I am already paying for Zap2It / SchedulesDirect and CoolMacSoftware’s MacProgramGuide app as a secondary EPG. I also must use the local OTA broadcasters’ own EPGs. Point is: I have yet to find any trustworthy single source of TV listings. How will Macrovision TVGuide® respond to discrepancies, how are we suppose to get you/them to “fix” their listings when found in error? EPGs can change “on a dime’s notice”, and last year the ATSC were tasked by the FCC to get a system working that can follow/track such changes (I was personally discussing this with local engineers).

At the very very least, you ought to instigate the “free 1–year TVGuide® subscription” WHEN WE WANT TO SWITCH–OVER TO IT, not at at the time v3.1 was installed irregardless!

Surely you–all were expecting a humongous re-action to such a decision, surely?

Furthermore, absolutely none of my filed bug–reports have been fixed. Indeed some of them were closed without my permission and without any explanation at all. I have re-opened and updated those tickets saying so.

I am therefore viewing this v3.1 release as a “severe downgrade”. How dare you–all treat us this way.

I wanted to keep my complaints away from public forums. But I feel your company’s treatment of our private issues with your products (ignoring & closing tickets etc.) now deserves public admonishment. In other words, you had your chance and FAILED.

I tell ya right here-&-now I am about to the point of filing a report with the BBB located in the area of your company U.S. headquarters (CC’ing the BBB in my area). That’s how hot the seat is you are sitting in with me right now.

Now … what is Elgato going to do about these issues esp. the unfixed bugs?

[Nick Freeman]

We'll have a more official statement about this EPG transition shortly. I'll save any further explanations until that article is ready.

At the very very least, you ought to instigate the “free 1–year TVGuide® subscription” WHEN WE WANT TO SWITCH–OVER TO IT, not at at the time v3.1 was installed irregardless!

One point that seems to be unclear - a one year TV Guide trial starts from the moment you sign up for TV Guide, and not the moment you install EyeTV 3.1, or any future software.

If you like, you can wait until 2010 (or whatever point that TitanTV service is no longer available in EyeTV), and then sign up for TV Guide. From that point on, your one year free trial will start. Until you decide to use TV Guide (if you decide to use it over XMLTV or another service), then just don't sign up for it in the Setup Assistant - skip that step.

[Nick Freeman]

Here is the official statement:

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4223&p=20846#p20846

[Mike Evangelist]

How will Macrovision TVGuide® respond to discrepancies, how are we suppose to get you/them to “fix” their listings when found in error?

We report any inconsistencies and omissions directly to TV Guide and they have been (to date) very quick to respond with fixes. Their speed in resolving such issues is one of the areas where TV Guide seems much stronger than TitanTV, and was a significant factor in our decision to use their service.

[Mike Evangelist]

Here is some proof we are getting more than 7–days using TitanTV on EyeTV’s Program Guide.

This is very curious, and definitely not typical. I've sent you a PM asking for more details so I can try this for myself.

[Gerr]

I am quite satisfied with TitanTV and remote scheduling is great. elgato should allow us to keep using TitanTV indefinitely. I don't want to pay $20 a year for something I don't need and won't use.

[pseniura]

Here is the official statement:

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4223&p=20846#p20846

Hi again,

I want to be polite enough to say thank you for that explanation.

But I still have a terrible taste in my mouth now as I explained above. The taste is getting worse & worse as I contemplate on this EPG decision further.

You should know I for one do not trust anyone telling me what is better for Me–the–customer.

The old saying applies here:
“You know a salesman is lying when …”

I–the–customer must be allowed to decide for myself, and be given choices I can change on a whim.

Each of your customers is in a vastly different situation. What suits you cannot be expected to suit me, even in the same country watching the same TV shows.

I am presuming once I sign-up for TVGuide®, I will be unable to switch back to TitanTV on a per–station basis e.g. the EyeTV Channels page EPG drop–down column for each station.
Let me explain.
If I must pay for supported EPG Services (even round-about thru your company), I want a CHOICE, and I want ALL of those to be simultaneously available on all sections applicable within the EyeTV.app.
ATM I see 4 entries in the Channels page EPG drop–down column for each station:
None
TitanTV
ATSC
xmltv
Once I sign-up for TVGuide®, I would expect to see an additional 5th choice in that list — I do not expect TitanTV to suddenly disappear. You/me have already paid for TitanTV, let it continue to be usable.

(I will not sign-up for TVGuide® just to find out the answers for myself, because that is when my 1–year “free” period will commense and no way to re-set it.)

I want to drill this point again: Many of us need more than one EPG source, as I said in earlier post, because no single provider is 100% correct, they aren’t always corrected in timely manner (despite what you–all do), and so on. EPG is the single–most important feature of any PVR system, you know how angry we–the–customers get when we miss a show. Yet Elgato seem to be bent on providing only one official EPG source, even if I want to pay for more myself. This proves Elgato ain’t listenin’ nor providing real solutions.

Let me get another extremely important aspect out into the public here.

You had a pitiful “EPG poll” here:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=3770
Not at all representative of Us–the–customers
(never mind that I was not available while that poll was open).

WHO finally decided TVGuide® was “better” than the other EPG services?
Was it someone in San Francisco (as your forum registration shows) — a thousand miles or more outside my particular area here?
Was it the Corporate Owners in a whole ’nuther country?
Was there some Payola™?

Do you understand that some of us regard Macrovision® as “The Enemy” in all things related to Home A/V Entertainment — and do you know why we despise them so much?
(tpka evstratios above got kinda close but there is so much more to that story)
Therefore some of us do not want any of our hard–earned money going to such a filthy organization, at all, in any way / shape / form, period.

There … I’ve said it.

(no smiley here, I am dead serious)

[Mike Evangelist]

We appreciate that you find this change very disappointing. We're sorry you feel that way.

Regarding your question about using both Titan and TV Guide...no, it won't work that way. You use one or the other. You will, of course, still be able to combine that with XMLTV data if that's required for your particular situation.

[sjk]

Kind of unfair of Elgato to respond to newer comments/questions, yet ignore this older one that specifically seeks their feedback:

Something I haven't seen explicitly mentioned is whether or not TitanTV remote scheduling via the web site will continue being supported after its EPG support is phased out. My hunch is that it won't be because Elgato won't be paying them to keep it, but I'd like to get official confirmation.

[Aidyn]

Do I understand this correctly?

To have a TV guide we will have to pay a fee now?

[sjk]

To have a TV guide we will have to pay a fee now?

That's been answered a dozen times, explicitly and implicitly (e.g. Why is there a fee for the EyeTV Program Guide?).

[Mike Evangelist]

whether or not TitanTV remote scheduling via the web site will continue being supported after its EPG support is phased out.

We will continue to have remote scheduling capabilities after the 2010 cutoff. But it may or may not be via TitanTV.

[DJCHRISPAUL]

After updating to 3.1 Titan TV will not download the schedule! Blimey, i wouldn't have updated if I knew, and now we have to pay? What's going on Elgato?